Hamm sat down (through Zoom, of course) with IndyStar in late February to discuss the project......
"American Hostage," a narrative true-crime podcast that is the first of its kind from Amazon Music
Tell me a little bit about how you got into the project, how you heard about (the Kiritsis case), what interested you ?
- As you may or may not know, I'm from just down the road, St. Louis, Missouri, but had not actually heard of this particular story and found it fascinating.
It's kind of this particular moment in pre-internet, pre-livestream, pre-21st Century media as this kind of glorious throwback to what is this amazing happening.
Fred and Tony and Dick and everybody involved in it are so of the moment, you know? Fred's this kind of old-school newsman, and Tony is kind of this prototypical angry white man who's finding himself sort of voiceless. And it just resonated so much with the current moment that I thought what a great story.
I want to ask — there are waves and waves of source material on this — so what was the preparation like for something like this ?
- Mostly just reading up on the story then listening to the source material. There's clearly as you say a raft of all these things because it's recorded for posterity, and putting yourself into that world and into that moment of when people listened to the radio for news.
It's such a quaint, kind of weird sort of way to get information, and yet, it was what everyone had. There was no internet. There was no Facebook. There were no phones. This is what you did. You were in your car, and you listened to the news.
It was so bizarre, and it's so difficult to kind of process as a 21st Century human being in the way that we process news — except I'm 50, so I kind of understand how it used to be.
I wanted to ask about the medium specifically. Doing a narrative podcast — it's kind of almost like old timey radio. It's an interesting space creatively. What was that like? Did you record live with the other actors ?
- I think it's kind of fun, honestly. And yes, we did record live with the other actors.
It was during the pandemic, so we were on Zoom. We were spaced out and what have you, but getting the chance to work with so many talented people — Carla, Dylan (Baker), Becky (Ann Baker) — so many people who are friends of mine but talented actors.
It was just a fun experience, we got to kind of tell the story collectively. As actors, we get the opportunity to do that sporadically at best. And so when a story comes across, and the way we get to tell it, it's so fun. So yeah, we had a blast.
Was the timing kind of perfect because you had a lot of movie, TV and stage sets shut down ?
- I mean, I guess? I don't know.
The way it kind of came together for me was obviously here we are. We're wearing masks in a sound booth. And that's particular to that moment in time. But it was just unique and fun.
Is ("American Hostage" director and Oscar winner Shawn Christensen) in there with you, too? Are you taking direction ?
- You know, it's a lot like what you're looking at on your screen (a Zoom call with multiple people). Except we're each in a sound booth.
I obviously had known Carla (the two appeared together in 2011's "Sucker Punch"), and I know Dylan and some of the folks involved. But when you're looking at them on the screen, and you're kind of in real time with them, it's really very much like doing a play. And the way it came together is so compelling and exciting, so I'm happy for people to get to hear it.
I wanted to ask a little bit more about the source material — the characters and the real people that you guys are portraying... there were some quotes attributed to you in the promotional stuff (Amazon) sent along that said basically this was an interesting case of a man (Kiritsis) who became sort of an anti-hero through the course of the whole thing.
There were (newspaper) clips that said when he was found not guilty by reason of insanity, people applauded at a hockey game. People called the Star to say they did not want him prosecuted.
What was it like to tell the story of this really interesting character/real person? At the beginning, he's basically a criminal, clearly, but by the end of it, it's a little more jumbled — the morality of the whole thing.
- Well, I think a big part of that is that fact that no one died.
Uh-huh.
- I think had this gone another way, this might have played out differently for Tony.
Look, here we are. We're in a world of post-Jan. 6, 2021, as well, and it's kind of a weird place that we find ourselves in, right? We understand that there is this kind of simmering rage that is happening — this unheard kind of anger.
And that's what Tony was representing 40, 50 years ago. It's a real thing. You ignore it at your peril, and I think we're kind of living through a lot of that right now.
So yeah, he is kind of the hero to a certain group of people, and it's a very interesting thing to look at.
It seems like one of the themes of the podcast as a whole is sort of playing with the idea of the media's role in these types of things. Is it a positive or a negative role ?
- You know, I think about the way this story unfolded. There was no judgment. It was just reported.
I think what happens now is that, even when things are presented live, there is this rush to put a filter on it or put a judgment on it in a way that I don't think is smart, honestly. I don't think it's healthy. I don't think it's right.
When things are happening in the moment, you should just experience them. You can't say "and then this is how it's going to shake down politically" or what have you.
Even when you look at something like Ukraine. In the moment, it's happening and it's terrifying and it's sad and it's all those things. But you kind of just have to report it and then let the judgment and the fallout happen later.
- We don't really have that anymore... it's a very weird kind of place that we find ourselves in with media. And I dare say it might have been a little bit better when it moved a little slower.
Jon Hamm on Top Gun: Maverick, His New Narrative Podcast and His Dog's Inner Monologue
GQ spoke to Hamm over Zoom about his voice acting both in and out of scripted podcasts....
GQ: Last year, you acted in another scripted true crime podcast, Love Is A Crime. Were you specifically looking to do another one ?
Jon Hamm: No is the short answer. But the opportunity to get to be a part of these interesting stories is what attracts me to this particular medium. There's a lower bar of entry when you're not putting together a film shoot or trying to do period storytelling. You're just doing it from an audio standpoint. You have the capacity to tell these stories at a much more approachable level. And they're really compelling stories.
When [producers] Karina [Longworth] and Vanessa [Hope] came to me with Love Is A Crime, I was like, "Wow, this is a great story. How has this never been told?" American Hostage was very much in the same vein. “I'm from the Midwest. I'm from this era. How have I never heard of this? Or if I have heard of it, how did it not stick?” It's pretty cool to be able to be a part of it.
You're not seeing it visually, but it just feels like a '70s story, in this kind of burgeoning new world that was busting out after the counterculture and civil rights and all of this stuff that was happening in the '60s. And even in 2022, we're dealing with a lot of those similar things that are happening. If you look at, obviously, the events of January 6th last year, there's a lot of that kind of dissatisfaction with life and with what's happening. And I think we're still kind of processing that.
A lot of the folks who were involved in this are no longer with us, including the two main folks. But the wonderful part of this story, given the fact that it happened on the air live, is that there's a recording of it. And it's pretty compelling to listen to.
Fred Heckman was a real person, but American Hostage is somewhat fictionalized; were there other journalist performances that you had in mind while you were preparing to play him ?
- I certainly enjoyed a little film called Good Night And Good Luck. I loved watching Broadcast News. I love watching Network. I love watching anything from Aaron Sorkin. There's a lot of exciting narrative and storytelling capacity for those in our world who deliver the news. And yeah, it was exciting to be a part of that.
Prior to your recent podcast voice acting, you've done a lot of voice performances for animation. Take us behind the scenes of your work on Bob's Burgers, for example.
- Playing a toilet? One of my best friends writes on Bob's Burgers, tall Jon Schroeder — he's tall Jon, I'm medium Jon. I came in and recorded the voice of a toilet. And to this day, in my bathroom, there is a picture of Gene hugging a toilet. Very excited about that.
After almost two years of delay, Top Gun: Maverick is finally scheduled to come out in May. Are you permitted to talk about it ?
- Yeah. I play the boss, the guy who's shaking his finger and telling Tom Cruise that he's writing checks his body can't cash. It's exciting. The movie is tremendous. Talk about excited. I cannot wait for people to see this film. It's everything you want the sequel to Top Gun to be. It's super-great. I don't want to spoil it, but it's awesome.
Did you get to do any cool stunts ?
- No, but I looked good. And it's super-fun and I get to wear a uniform. It's all very exciting.
Plus, if you’re named Vice Admiral Cyclone, we know you've done some cool shit in the past.
- Exactly. Come on. Cyclone. That's amazing. I get a call sign.
Now that the ads are running, have you determined whether you did do something to offend Apple TV+ ?
- Honestly, no, but we'll see. I thought it was really funny. You never know how those things are going to come off. Like, “Oh, is it going to seem like I'm like some weird bitter cranky old man? Or is it going to seem like it's funny in the way that I thought it was going to be funny?” I was very, very happy that it was received in the way it was. I'm very excited to see my friend Adam Scott's new show, Severance. I think it looks really good.
I talked to him recently and we touched on The Greatest Event In Television History. I was sad to hear there probably aren't going to be more; did you have a favorite among the ones that you did
- That was one of those weird things that came up. We were just bullshitting with each other, literally in a barroom conversation, and then it came to be. I literally remember being on set like, “Are we really doing this? This is so stupid.” I would do only that for the rest of my life, if I was given the opportunity. So hopefully, we can do more of those. But yes, sadly, both of us have actual work to do, so we can't just make ridiculous things for our own amusement anymore.
Mad Men is one of the shows viewers discovered or re-watched during early pandemic lockdown. I know you're not on social media, but how has the fan response that reaches you changed over the years
- I found over the course of lockdown that a lot of people started watching it, that I actually thought had watched it.
Like friends ?
- Yeah. "Hey, I finally watched your show." "Really? It's been ten years since it's been off the air." But yeah. I'm very happy when people actually see it because it's a good show. I'm proud of it.
Last year the world got to enjoy photos of you meeting a woman's dog in Boston. I don’t assume you and the dog are still in touch, but do you remember this happening ?
- I do remember that. We were in Boston, shooting [Confess, Fletch] down the street. I love dogs. I'll say it. I have an amazing one. But yeah, I got to bring my dog to Boston. I lived there for two months, and we shot a pretty significant portion of the film at this one location that was very dog-friendly. Five o’clock, everyone comes home from work and walks their dogs. So it was very cool. I got to say hi to a lot of dogs. And my dog got to say hi to a lot of dogs too.
Fletch and Top Gun are both beloved film franchises. What are your considerations before deciding whether to step into those worlds ?
- Well, with Top Gun, obviously, that's Tom's bailiwick, and it was a tremendous honor to be asked to be in that world. I jumped at the chance. I was literally having a conversation with my 15-year-old self and kvelling in every way, shape, and form. But with Fletch, it was more about, can we reboot this story, this franchise? Obviously I, like every white male my age, has a kind of trophy shelf of Fletch quotes and love, love, love Chevy's version, but we wanted to make a different version for the 21st century. I'm not doing a Chevy Chase impression and we're not trying to make that movie, but there are ten novels that Gregory McDonald wrote with this character, and I just thought, "Well, I think we can make a different version of it."
I hope that it resonates to a new generation, because obviously kids today don't know Fletch. They were not born in the '80s. They don't get it. There's a whole generation and a half that really hasn't seen that film. So hopefully we can tell another fun, quirky, funny whodunnit starring Fletch.
You already mentioned your dog, who you adopted about a year and a half ago. How is he doing ?
- He's good. He's going to be two. We gave him my birthday. We're guessing, clearly, but we think he's about to be two. He's amazing. He gets a lot of treats and a lot of love. God, he's the best. He's just a big sweet, dope. I love him so much.
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Unfortunately, Hamm's comic book movie debut ended up being another casualty of The New Mutants's famously troubled production. While early reports suggested that Boone had shot material that set the stage for Mister Sinister's introduction, the actor says that there's no footage of him in costume locked away in deep storage just waiting to be repurposed by the franchise's new owners at Marvel Studios.
"I never shot anything," he reveals now. "I remember having a conversation with people: I'm a huge comic book fan, especially of the X-Men and The New Mutants, so I was excited to be considered. But these conversations happen and then life intervenes."
Hamm similarly downplays the notion that he was seriously ever in the running to play Superman, despite the fact that he's been a fancasting favorite for over a decade. He even appeared in Zack Snyder's 2011 film, Sucker Punch, right before the director rebooted the dormant DC Comics franchise with 2013's Man of Steel. But Hamm insists that he and Snyder never brought up their shared affection for the Last Son of Krypton during production. "I never spoke to him about superhero stuff. I think I might be long in the tooth for the Superman tights these days. But I love Zack: He's a super-talented guy and a lovely man."
The hostage crisis depicted in American Hostage happened one year after Sidney Lumet's classic media satire, Network, and I hear a lot of Howard Beale in Tony's dialogue. Do you know if the real Tony Kiritsis was a fan of the film?
- I'm a huge Network fan, but I honestly don't know if there was any kind of overlap from Tony's point of view. But you can see how the media landscape was shifting in both American Hostage and Network. The DNA of what's going on in there, and the fact that all of these stories were kind of unfolding live, because the technology was such that you could do it. You also have this kind of dissatisfied person using the tools at his disposal to make his dissatisfaction known, and obviously, we are seeing a lot of that happening these days. If you look at the events of January 6 last year, there was a very weird kind of sensibility in terms of what's going on with dissatisfied, cranky whites.
You're not on social media at all: Is that a conscious choice?
- I got lucky in that I got famous right before that all happened. So I made the very conscious decision to opt out, which is, I think, healthy. All of this social media stuff is a relatively new technology in the scope of things, and it's still being beta tested as to how it really works in all of our lives. People seem to enjoy it, but I don't. It's a time suck, and it seems to require effort. If I'm performing for someone, I would rather get paid! I don't want to do it for free. [Laughs] It's just a very weird choice that people seem to want to do in oversharing their existence, but it's kind of become the coin of the realm, so I don't know how to judge or not judge it.
Fred's place in the American Hostage narrative is interesting because he's clearly ambitious, but he's not yet part of the generation of journalists who relish being celebrities. Was that your sense of how he handled himself during the crisis ?
- It almost seems quaint at this point: The person who's literally thrust into becoming part of the story, but wants no part of it. Fred had to do it because that was his job. It's very weird how we exist in a world now where journalists almost demand to be part of the story.
The troublemakers, right?
- Yeah, and not good trouble either.
One of the things we saw with January 6 is that the dissatisfied individuals you're talking about don't really need established media platforms anymore. Today, Tony would likely be livestreaming on his phone.
- Yeah, and we've unfortunately seen a lot of examples of tragedy unfolding live. It's the unfortunate circumstance of giving everybody the capacity to broadcast. I mean, in a perfect world, it democratizes the ability to get your message out, but we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a sadly imperfect world, and what makes headlines is livestreaming tragedy, and this was, unfortunately, kind of the first version of that.
You're not on social media at all: Is that a conscious choice?
- I got lucky in that I got famous right before that all happened. So I made the very conscious decision to opt out, which is, I think, healthy. All of this social media stuff is a relatively new technology in the scope of things, and it's still being beta tested as to how it really works in all of our lives. People seem to enjoy it, but I don't. It's a time suck, and it seems to require effort. If I'm performing for someone, I would rather get paid! I don't want to do it for free. [Laughs] It's just a very weird choice that people seem to want to do in oversharing their existence, but it's kind of become the coin of the realm, so I don't know how to judge or not judge it.
Fred's place in the American Hostage narrative is interesting because he's clearly ambitious, but he's not yet part of the generation of journalists who relish being celebrities. Was that your sense of how he handled himself during the crisis?
- It almost seems quaint at this point: The person who's literally thrust into becoming part of the story, but wants no part of it. Fred had to do it because that was his job. It's very weird how we exist in a world now where journalists almost demand to be part of the story.
Do we lose something when people place their trust in specific voices rather than the institution of journalism ?
- I think at the end of the day, people are really only as good as the choices they're given, right? In the old days, it was like, "OK, you have three networks — pick one," and you listened to whoever. Whereas now it's a million networks, and you can find the exact person who will tell you what you want to hear, and that's where we are.
It's a shame because instead of somebody telling you what's happening, you are getting a version of what you want to hear. You know, some people think Tucker Carlson is the voice of reason or that Rachel Maddow is the voice of reason, and yet they're only the voice of an opinion — their opinion. They're writing op-eds, it's just that they're reading them as news, and that's very, very different.
Where do you go for your news these days?
- Boy, that's a good question. I listen to NPR. I'm not on social media, so I don't have a feed, but I get a lot of it from my phone, too. I try to apply a pretty good filter and understand that if I'm reading something from Fox News, it's going to have a slant, and if I read something from this or that or the other it's going to have a slant. I try to self-filter. Is that a thing? [Laughs]
It's the 15th anniversary of Mad Men this year: I watched the pilot again recently and it's striking how different that episode is from what the show eventually evolved into. Did you have a sense at the time of what the series was going to become?
- No, we didn't know what the show was going to become. Obviously, we all had very high hopes, and we really hoped that it was going to continue from when we shot the pilot. We were all hoping we would have a job! [Laughs] But we got to tell a very interesting, cool, exciting, resonant story, and it was a real blast. I can't believe it was 15 years ago that the pilot came out, and I can't believe all of the things that have happened to me since then. I'm super grateful for all of them.
The key moment in that pilot is the "It's toasted" scene. Was that the scene you knew you had to get right for the show to work ?
- Oh yeah, that was very key to Don's sensibility, since him being a salesman is a big part of it. I probably did that scene 100 times in auditions, and I can vividly remember shooting it now.
The other great scene is the exchange between Don and Peggy where she tries to flirt with him, and he shuts her down. It's amazing to watch again knowing where those characters ultimately end up.
- Yeah, there were a lot of cool moments between those two characters over the course of the series, and that was the genesis of it. It was very much an establishment of a relationship that only got richer as the series progressed. You saw it over the course of the first season when she has a baby and Don is there for her, and then over the course of the whole series when Peggy moves on. That particular relationship was so rich and fulfilling, I think, on both sides of the equation.
You're in Top Gun: Maverick, which is finally coming out this summer after multiple delays. What's your favorite Tom Cruise story from that shoot?
- On my first day of shooting, I walked on set and he just gave me the biggest hug. He was like, "I'm so glad you're here," which of course he doesn't have to say! I'm glad I'm here — are you kidding me? [Laughs] I remember talking to him at some point on that first day, and I said, "This has to be so weird for you. You're literally in the same place and in the same costume that you were in 25 years ago." And he was like, "It is weird." I'm glad that he recognized it! By the way, I've seen the film and it's so good. I cannot wait for people to see it; it's exactly what you want it to be, and I just can't wait for it to come out.
It sounds like Paramount made the right call in delaying it until theaters reopened.
- Yeah, that's how you want to see that movie: You want to see it big and loud, and blowing up in your face. You don't want to see it on your phone, c'mon! And Tom, to his tremendous credit, is one of our few capital "M" movie stars, and he delivers. It's exactly the sequel to Top Gun that it needs to be. There are great references to the previous movie, and yet it's also its own thing. It's really cool and delivers all of the excitement that you want in a movie like that.
Will we see you on Saturday Night Live again anytime soon? I always loved that Halloween sketch where you played James Mason.
- I mean, I hope so! It's an institution, and I'm very happy to have a place in that institution. It's not up to me, but I would love to do it again. It's so interesting to see how the cast and the show changes over the years, and yet, it's still the same in a lot of ways. I still watch it religiously. I don't miss an episode, even if I'm out of the country. Bill [Hader], Will [Forte], Fred [Armisen], Kristen [Wiig], and Jason [Sudeikis] were my team and they were so fun to be a part of. It was a moment in time, but boy, is it fun to think back on.
You haven't gotten your Five-Timers jacket yet either.
- I know, I'm just a Three-Timer! Someday, fingers crossed.
Finally, there were reports that you were in the running to host the Oscars this year. What would your approach to that have been — would you have channeled Bob Hope or Billy Crystal ?
- Yeah, I really wanted to reach out to the millennials, so I thought I'd channel Bob Hope! [Laughs] I was in contention to do that, and they went another way. I'm a fan, and I'll be watching. It's a thankless job, but I wish them all the best.
March 10, Mr Hamm is 51 years old
Finally, there were reports that you were in the running to host the Oscars this year. What would your approach to that have been — would you have channeled Bob Hope or Billy Crystal ?
- Yeah, I really wanted to reach out to the millennials, so I thought I'd channel Bob Hope! [Laughs] I was in contention to do that, and they went another way. I'm a fan, and I'll be watching. It's a thankless job, but I wish them all the best.
Will Packer
There’s been speculation that Jon Hamm was going to be part of the show but that you two had creative differences.
- I can tell you that’s not true. I think Jon’s great. And he and I are good. These are definitely the three ladies who were meant to be the hosts.
Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade || Jon Hamm
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Daniel Radcliffe Compares Channing Tatum to Jon Hamm
The annual Mercedes-Benz USA Academy Awards Viewing Party was held on Sunday night at the Four Seasons Los Angeles in Beverly Hills.
This year, the luxury automaker, which previously hosted the glamorous affair in the hotel’s ballroom, opted for a tented, outdoor screening of the 94th Academy Awards telecast at the Four Seasons’ Wetherly Pavilion.
“It’s nice to have an excuse to get dressed up and go out and have a good time. Without a mask and the whole thing,” Mercedes-Benz brand ambassador Jon Hamm told Variety on the red carpet.
The “Mad Men” star, who made his red carpet debut with girlfriend Anna Osceola at the party, went on to note that last year he was “not dressed nearly as nicely” and he and Osceola spent the night on the couch with their dogs.
Of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences’ controversial decision to pre-record eight categories which were then edited and aired during the telecast, Hamm said, “You can’t win for losing with those things.”
He added, “Everybody says it’s too long and then everybody says it’s not long enough. It seems like a manufactured controversy. I’m glad that they all still get their moments, and they all get awards and are recognized so it will be what it is.”
Hamm told Variety that his favorite Oscars moment was “the streaker that one time. That’s probably all from the 70s.”
At the 1974 Academy Awards, photographer Robert Opel gained notoriety after he ran across the stage naked as co-host David Niven was about to introduce Elizabeth Taylor.
As for his Oscars picks, Hamm said, “I always root for upsets, I’m rooting for surprises, and I did my voting but I’m going to keep it all secret.”
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